mdawrcn

For those of you who have a smart phone, there is an app called DailyArt. Each day a new painting is featured and a little information is given about the painting and the artist. It is free and an interesting way to learn about art. I don't think there's any advertising on it either.

Normal

For Baldur - about cherubs. They are very ancient - see the wikipedia message. What many do not know is the 4 cherubs associated with the Hebrew name of God (yod-heh-vav-heh) and assigned one to each of the 4 evangelists in fact originated with the Mesopotamian astrologers. They represent the 4 fixed signs (known in pagan lore as "cross festivals"). The center of each is just exactly halfway between the cardinal signs signaling the solstices & equinoxes.

Taurus (bull) is seen with Luke, Leo (lion) with Mark, Scorpio (represented by the eagle) with John, and Aquarius ( shown as the man) with Matthew. I "collected" instances of these for years before finally getting the link while standing in the Cologne Cathedral & viewing a window on the south of the nave. They also appear in the corners of two Tarot cards, the Wheel and the World.

Baldur

That is quite interesting normal, and I'm sorry for my delay in responding.
The holidays are quite a production here at Boughbreak. I've ignored Radio Baldur for a couple of weeks.

Like most other things in the Roman Catholic universe it seems the cherubim were also liberated from earlier sources.
Starting in it's second Millenium the Catholic church was not unlike the Borg.

Normal

You're right. Many of the Saints are Christianized versions of the old gods. St. Brigid in Ireland was their Bridgid ('Bree"), goddess of fire and creativity (think silver smiths). African gods appears as Saints in places like Haiti. Other instances abound.

Fangzzz

Tear my hair out. When will humanity get past the me vs. "them" mentality. Orange vs Green, Black vs Whilte, Protestant vs Catholic. So offended. The statements read like all the Salem witch trials never happened, Romans never burnt cities or goodly protestants had no part in being the borg to the American tribal people. We all are equal off in our shared genetics that believes we are better than others. OUR past collectively is wrong and we need to figure out how we are going to get on the page of respect. Wide brushes create safe corners where we can hide that it is all about "them". This view is so dangerous.

Humans first. Wishes for a season of peace and love.

Baldur

My apologies Fangzz for any perceived offenses.

Baldur is himself a recovering Roman Catholic, I thought that gave me some leeway to call the organization out. Apparently not.

Baldur

+z

bugoy1

Just like a good piece of Art, everyone gleans something different from the subject. We all bring different past experience to the table. That alters how we perceive comments too.

What I got from their comments was that religions and traditions tend to evolve more than most people recognize. Various faiths and practices are highly connected from one group to another. We often overlook those similarities and shared foundation to fixate on the little variations. That's just human nature.

I personally find the anthropology of religions fascinating. And I do believe that there is more "borrowed" stuff in religion than most people care to admit.

However, I probably shouldn't have said ANYTHING on the subject. When I worked at Mt. Rushmore right out of high school, they taught us that there are two things you never discuss with patrons: 1) Politics 2) Religion. So perhaps I'm naive to believe that my earlier statements are benign and nobody will take offense to them. My intent was not to be at all divisive. But you know what they say about good intentions...

Baldur

They should get thrashed out of you?

Baldur

I think that was indeed my Father's personal philosophy.

(Dad I turned out gay.. would you try to beat that out of me too were you still here?)

bugoy1

Baldur, I'm so sorry to hear all of that. I can appreciate how you call yourself a recovering Catholic now. That is part of the ugly side of religion. Dogmatic beliefs are often placed over humans and how they are treated.

I myself am a recovering Mormon. It's been over a decade since I left all of it behind. It isn't an easy path, nor is it the way for everyone. But for me, it was the best thing I ever did. I do not for one second regret what I've "lost". I no longer feel compelled to judge people who drink coffee, beer, or tea. I've lost the fear of gay people and their "sins" influencing me. I don't believe anymore that "the priesthood" should be limited to males. The big scary world that was supposed to be getting worse by the day isn't as frightening as I get to know more about people. As Depeche Mode said, "People are people". We share ambitions and needs.

From my experience, the only down side to leaving is how it rips families apart. I've lost friends and family members because of my disbelief. Luckily, my wife experienced her own "crisis of faith" and joined me and my filthy, heathen ways.

On the plus side, I've discovered a whole community of others who have gone through something similar and also left that behind. That has been an enriching and cathartic experience to share stories. Non-Mormons (as they are called here in Utah) used to be considered "them" and would be a bad influence (as was taught constantly). I'm so glad to now know people from various backgrounds and beliefs now. Leaving the Mormon bubble (that's what it's called here) has been wonderful for me. Again, it isn't the path for everyone.

By the way, Baldur, the quote was "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions". I was referring to that. Also, I violated the religion discussion rule. Oh well. In for a penny. . .

Baldur

I don't mean to imply that he beat me often, this was not a regular thing.
But I do recall 4 distinct instances over the course of perhaps 12 years. Still that is 4 more times than any child deserves.
What really pissed me off about the situation was that the first instance was undeserved even by his twisted logic. I was punished for doing something I clearly didn't do.
Denying my involvement made me into a 'liar' which escalated matters until my father was red in the face and about to see the arteries in his temples burst.
Despite the beating I maintained my innocence.
What followed and still lasts until this day is the label of 'liar'.
My Mother will at times bring it up lightly as if it is a funny matter, some quaint reminiscence.
'Oh you always were a liar'.
I can never erase it and this has certainly ruined my relation with both my mother and my deceased father.

bugoy1

That's too bad, Baldur. Dr. Laura likes to say that you have two families. The first is the one you are born into and the second is the one you make. You can't do anything about the first one, but it sounds like you are getting things right with the second.

Baldur

Both families are quite divorced and never see each other.
I have a wonderful relationship with my children.
They know just enough about their grandmother to want to stay clear of her.

Fangzzz

Thanks guys. My religious path is so twisted. A father on one side of the fence and a mother on another (Nazarene/Catholic). Every Christmas as a delightful experience of raised voices and shouts of "whore of Babylon" and "illogical bible thumper". Recently learned that my DNA path is Jewish, covered up due to WWI (rather than the later Nazi hate). Which explains some of the Jewish trends in my art as I study Torah. Certainly across many cultures there has been assimilation and dominance. My mind is a religious mutt. Which is very sensitive to all the labeling and rubs from all sides. In each religion, I can see beauty and complete stupidity. I would be an atheist if I didn't have knowledge of a higher power

Maybe we have the same grandmother, mine was one to stay clear of.

Baldur isn't it amazing how childhood injustice sticks with you? In 6th grade I admitted to a small part of a bigger wrong doing by a group - the rest weren't honest, so I was punished for the whole wrong. My part was accidental and small. Will forever not like that teacher. Another my mother had told me not to go swimming while sick and my PE teacher said swim or get an F that day. Turned my A for the semester into a B. So the choice of disobey your parent or disobey the school. I get the dislike of liar labeling. For me it is loyalty in my work. I always work for the group first, self second. So if someone ever tried to say I wasn't helping it cuts my motivation to the core.

The worst for me was watching an old sibling get beaten. Only day it stopped is when we broke the paddle and then lightly Elmer's glued it together. The next session it broke and I joined in "I've never seen you paddle him that hard!!!" No more after that. We were wise kids.

Normal

Sorry your buttons seemed to get pushed by a touch of history! I agree about the
perceived wrongs of childhood. Just thinking this morning about a baby-sitter at some friends where I went for lunch (in my day we walked home, moms were at home usually, and some kids went nearly a mile!) Apparently both moms were elsewhere this day and we shared with some other kids. The idiotic woman insisted we all eat our canned peaches dessert, though I CLEARLY explained this would make us all late coming back to school. Seems I still have some forgiving to do.

Lolla

A stranger is just a friend you do not know! Don't we all have something to remember. What will we be without these life lessons? My father, dearly, wonderful man he was, could never show love or emotion. Every time I ask "how do I look" he said: like the dog's tail! It took me 70 years to realise the tail sits at the wrong side of the dog. Sins I broke that 'curse' life turned out to be a rainbow! Religion brings you nowhere, faith and relationship with God carried me thru many trails and tribulations!!! Love u all!!!

Fangzzz

My personal bully nicknamed me "purple" as a kid. Funny thing looking back as an adult that, that was a problem. Purple and dark blue were my two favorite colors. I even had begged my mother for a purple pea coat that I loved. It was me that allowed her mind to become mine. A dog's tail shows emotion and wags with happiness - truly a wonderful thing. So cheers to the better meanings - as a connection to a better take away - to our labels that help us grow

Have you ever considered that artists are really just people that look again - rework - and view differently the things before them? Possibly these experiences help us to look deeper.

Lolla

Good point about the happy tail, Fangzzz. But the tail will for ever be the follower. The head is the leader. It was my choice to stay the tail for so long, cause I thought I was happy. Telling me (the tail) is keeping me a slave but teach me and I became the master - the head.

Fangzzz

Good job breaking the chains.