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This may help:
http://www.french-linguistics.co.uk/technology/typing-accents-character-map.shtml

...or this:
http://www.studyspanish.com/accents/typing.htm#winXP

..or this:
http://www.french-linguistics.co.uk/technology/typing-accents-alt-codes.shtml

polenta

Remember Esperanto. It could have been a solution, at least as a lingua franca, but it didn't work. It has a small vocabulary, few grammatical rules, no exceptions and all the positive things you could imagine..... but people didn't accept it. People prefer complicated things. LOL
Look at three spellings of the same sound:
enouGH, PHilosoPHY, Film.
And this is just an example. I find Americans and for that matter maybe British people too have MILLIONS of spelling mistakes. I think foreign students of English have fewer spelling mistakes than native speakers of the language. Isn't it funny?
Of course Americans and British people are EXPERTS in English but not in its spelling.

polenta

Thanks Login. I liked what you taught us.For Solosater; you can type the famous ñ by pressing Alt 0241 if you are in Word (Windows) for example. Sometimes it's better to press the numbers on the right side of the keyboard just in case the other keys on top of the letters don't work. Good luck.

Dragon

People spelling badly is one of my pet peeves and it does run rampant here. I'm not a perfect speller myself but I do try and most of my words are right. My co-worker uses texting slang when booking appt's and it drives me crazy when I go into the computer to see what an appt is for and see she's written "Sompn's wrong with dog". She also has the habit of not using capital letters for peoples names. That may be fine here where a lot of people have chosen screen names without capitals but in real life names have capitals. I told her to start writing them that way and she couldn't understand why it bothered me, kept asking 'but why do I have to'. All I could reply with was "Cause that's the way it is". Not sure if she got it but she does it properly now so I don't care.

Login

I'm with you there, Dragon. Texting slang is fine in it's place and we get away with it here, but anywhere else ... it's taboo as far as I'm concerned. Polenta, I think a lot of spelling mistakes here are because we often don't read through what we've typed, before we submit it. There are also a few TDers who are dislexic ... and sometimes, when I read my own typing, I'd be forgiven for thinking that I am, too.

polenta

One question;
I found that APPT is an abreviation of appoint or appointment. Is this what you mean?
I'm not really referring to TDers. I remember American teachers here who, writing on the blackboard had incredible mistakes... and we, the students felt embarrassed.

Login

Written English is definately deteriorating in UK schools. This could be a result of the 'progressive' teaching methods, forced on teachers ... or a combination of several things, including text and email 'speak'.

solosater

All I'll say on this subject is this: spelling is controlled by the part of your brain that controls memory, is has nothing to do with intellect or education.

Some terribly smart people can't spell their own names. I personally write everything in a word processing program and spell-check it before pasting it here or sending it out to clients or friends in e-mails. I know I can’t spell to save my life and I’ve become ok with that, though I do try in anything someone else has to read. Something I find interesting is that I generally know when something is not spelled right when I read it but I don’t always know why it’s wrong.

Spell checkers aren't perfect either in "spelling"; they only check the word not the context so you may get away with using the wrong form of words like to, too and two or write and right.

I do know that poor spelling distracts some people and I can certainly understand wanting things in a professional setting to be done correctly whether it is spelling or anything else where everyone in the office is effected. I also understand that it is (to me and many others) an added stress that seems less important than say, getting the job done, making the client happy, getting on well with your co-workers and boss, having a good work ethic, etc. etc…

I personally hate it when people use words they don’t know the meaning of. I had a therapist who, I believe in an effort to impress others, would routinely use rather large and obscure words. I read quite a lot and have rather a large vocabulary so his words were not new to me but I did know they didn’t make any sense. I’d ask him to explain what he meant but he would get really defensive and tell me I was being defensive and just didn’t want to do the work. GRRR! That is one of my pet peeves, along with the whole effect/affect, averse/adverse, and irregardless thing that happens when people assume they know something but don’t check.

solosater

And, ok just one more thing, I do find it very distracting to find spelling errors in books whether it is a textbook, a novel or a magazine. Spelling errors in this setting are, to me, not so forgivable as they have proofreaders and editors and they are written for public consumption. I think it shows a lack of credit given to their audience and a lack of work ethic on the part of the author and the company who is publishing the work.

solosater

I once was reading a novel, I really couldn’t say what it was – I just don’t remember, and the author spelled the name of the main character 3 (yes THREE) different ways throughout the book. The same author, I think, in another book about three quarters of the way switched the main character’s name to something completely different like from James to Jesse or something, I was floored! How did the author, a series of proofreaders and the editor allow that to go to print? I do know I finished the books and as I cannot remember who it was I’m guessing I didn’t never ever, ever read her again so apparently she was a talented writer but, yeah, I find that distracting.

OH! Yea and yeah. That’s one that always catches my eye.

Dragon

Agree whole heartedly with you there solo. I've read some books that had a terrible amount of misspelled words and it always drove me crazy. I see it sometimes in internet news stories too and it always make me question how true they are. I mean if you can't even bother to spellcheck your story how am I supposed to believe you took the time to do some fact checking?

Oh and polenta you are correct, I was using appt as an abbreviation for appointment. (Though I must say I've always wondered why 'abbreviation' is such a long word! )

polenta

Thanks Dragon.
These ATM, OCC, TVB, POW, etc (I've invented some) are driving me crazy. They aren't even in the dictionary. I've just finished learning UN, NATO, IMF etc and hundreds more keep coming.
Well, like APP, we could say then ABB or AB.
Soon nobody will understand a word!!!! LOL
Wow!!! I've just used LOL which is also an acronym.
AATFOTL!!!!!!
Translation: Acronyms Are The Future Of The Language.

Login

OH NO! I hope not ...

Normal

Oh boy! You ladies are singing my tune. My daughter thinks it is hilarious that I read our local newspaper with a colored pen in hand and correct as I go. On the resubscription notice they ask for suggestions and I always write, "Get a copy editor!" We already have cashiers who would have no idea what your change was without the machine read-out. Next will be surrounded with people who have not the LEAST idea how to write?

The mind boggles and the faint heart quails!

Normal

will we be (hard to proofread your own stuff, isn't it?)

cutegrl289

I think people in general are getting stupider because they aren't challenged as often as they should be. Correct spelling (at least in the U.S.) is appalling, correct grammar is almost non-existent, and sentence structure is fragmented. I will have to admit, I'm not a math person, but because I do not have a job that requires me to use complicated equations, I have forgotten most of my elementary teachings since I do not need them on a daily basis. People are so used to being hand-fed answers and solutions, that they do not want to figure them out for themselves. "Anything to get it done quickly" seems to be America's lazy motto. Don't get me wrong... I love living here and I constantly thank God for the blessings and privileges I have, but Americans are growing lazier and stupider at an exponential rate. *Sigh* Anyone seen the movie "Idiocracy"?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

Ok, enough of my ranting.

Dragon

I rarely read the newspaper but I think mistakes there drive me the most crazy. We get a little free newspaper filled with local news and public interest stories and what not. There's one contributer who writes a "My Opinion of Things" kind of column. It dives me up the wall, not only are there glaring spelling errors but it's always full of grammatical mistakes as well. Some sentences I have to read several times to figure out what he's trying to say. This tiny little paper made national news a few years back when it published an interview with one of the County Councilmen. It was a terribly dry story about changing county by-laws or something but about halfway through the interview the Councilman was quoted as saying something like "We don't want to do that, it would be like throwing a tiger in the woodshed". Except instead of using the word Tiger he used an extremely offensive word reffering to black people. I just about fell out of my chair when I read that. I couldn't believe that anyone, especially someone in politics, would use that word in an interview. And I couldn't fathom what possessed the person writing the article and the editor (if there even was one) to put it in the paper. It made me ashamed to live in a place where they would think that was acceptable. I must say, though, I've found the majority of people around here to be very openminded, forward thinking folks so I don't feel ashamed any longer.

solosater

I think a politician using that term should be in the newspaper but for an expose on his racism not to highlight his politics. Was the person misquoted?

What I find to be sad is that our media (at least here in America) is feeding the lowest common denominator for profit. When the media dumbs it down or sensationalizes so they can sell more copies or have a larger audience and in turn sell more advertising space and make more money, I imagine that they are not too worried about getting the facts straight let alone the spelling and grammar. We are left with the only information coming from media that is more concerned with the bottom line than the “news”.

I’d bet there are quite a lot of people (ones who trust that the people writing the newspaper are an educated lot who care if they sound like idiots) who are making the same mistakes in grammar and spelling and who are just as wrong as to the “facts”. How often have you heard some idiot spouting what he “knows” about the economy or the war or the local school system? If you point out that what he’s saying doesn’t make any sense he’ll stand there and argue with you because he KNOWS what he read or heard or saw and he BELIEVES it is correct.

The people who don’t assume that everything in print or on TV, even from “reliable” sources, is correct are left to sift through the muck looking for truth while being bombarded with advertisements and puff pieces. I’m guessing these people already know how to spell and proper grammar (assuming they care, I mostly don’t) and aren’t basing every thought and opinion on some “journalist’s” thoughts and opinions.

I stopped reading the newspaper and watching the news years ago, what wasn’t downright depressing was so stupid it made me crazy! I always think of the Don Henley song Dirty Laundry when I do catch the news, love the song, hate the news.

solosater

I’m with cutegrl on the not being challenged thing, I was measuring my walls for some shelves I’m planning on building and realized I was having real trouble with fractions.

I’ve always loved fractions; they always make sense to me. I remember in the 6th-9th grades learning fractions and a lot of the other kids having trouble with them (probably why it took 4 years). Algebra was similar to me and didn’t pose huge problems; I still think the only place you should ever put a decimal point after the dollars and before the cents and there should only ever be two digits after it. I dropped out of high school and started trade school when I was 16 so I didn’t do much past algebra and that hasn’t hurt me so far.

Not being able to make simple adjustments in my fractions and get a sum was a bit of a slap in the face; I was loosing something very elementary to me from lack of use. The thing I have to be real thankful for is that I confuse calculators, I can put the same numbers in ten times and get ten different answers. If I’d been using a calculator all these years I probably wouldn’t be able to identify a fraction (though I guess I’d be more comfortable with the decimal point;-)

I was able to figure out the math on my shelves but it got me thinking about how we all said, “I’m never going to need this when I grow up!” We do need it but without the challenge of needing it occasionally we may as well have not learned it.

While I care very little about minor errors in grammar and only a little more about ones in spelling I can see the need for it. We should be held up to higher standards in these areas if only so we don’t loose it entirely.

Login

How is news print produced ... does anyone know? Does a local newspaper get typed up on a computer and sent to a tabloid size printer, or is it typed up for a print operator to transfer it to a heavy-duty printing machine. If it's the latter, I can understand the multiple errors that occur, week in and week out. However, if it's produced directly from a computer/word-processor, there is no excuse for any errors.

Up to a couple of years ago, I helped to record tapes for blind poeple. As a group, we would record articles from the local weekly newspaper, for circulation to local blind clubs. We would have to read all articles through before we recorded them, because there were always so many badly worded sentences. We could guarantee that would have to make many corrections to articles before we could read them aloud.

I have probably made some gramatical or puntuation errors here ... but nothing as appalling as we had to read each week.