yahoo

This is interesting, although I am a bit confused by the 'starting at 1' system.

Mainly I agree with Dragon, and think the rating of 4 is an excellent way to give an honest and encouraging vote. I think any new user coming back to their first picture and finding three or four votes at an average of about 4 is going to be happy. (Unless of course their first picture is a genuine Top 5 contender).

candr

Some of the rating problems might lie in the fact that people are ranking them on different criteria. Personally, I find it particulary hard to rate pictures. There are so many levels to rate them on. Am I rating them on the difficulty? You can tell some pictures take a lot of thought, patience and work. Am I judging them on the creative use of pieces? I love it when people think outside the box -- it is "Think" Draw after all. Is my rating based on the perfection of the piece? Sometimes it seems impossible to get something perfect because of the limitations of your pallete. Should those who reach that goal be the only ones to get 5's? So many variables!

Maybe we should just continue to rate how we rate now, but maybe have a box that says "favorite" or "recommend for Top 5". Then somehow add this recommendation to the formula that chooses top 5 -- maybe with the formula being equally weighted between star-rating, number of ratings and recommendation.

puzzler

It's going to be very interesting to see what actually makes the top 5 in fruit. Matthew's 'lips' got 32 votes but are way down on page 10 or 11 with some other stunning pics. I can't see that the top 5 in this category is going to reflect the amount of work people have put into their pics. I hope I am pleasantly surprised, but.....

matthew

Hehehe... Puzzler can't keep her mind of my lips...

puzzler

It's preferable to your thong!

1strongmojo

i like all the ideas but we know who has originality by accessing recent drawings and viewing past work. them that have history have respect for their art regardless of who is new . and fear of this site getting watered down by newcomers is close minded and the last thing artists do is close their own minds. live and let live. ratings are fine opinions are too. criticism works too well both ways.
why bother with something that isnt in need of fixing . life moves forward and so does art for if it didnt than any artist would stagnate.

marg

Hmm.. I guess I've said what I thought (rather often !), so maybe it would be nice if ThinkDraw let us know if the rating system changes.

One thing I think I'd like to see is an option to show recent drawings by number of votes - regardless of ratings.

matthew

...Well Minutes before the top 5 was posted, I had 6 of my pics voted down 'just' enough to knock them out of the top 5... (Bear with me. I am not complaining, just making a point that there is a Think Draw God of sorts).

...At the end of the month up till the top 5 was posted I had the 3rd highest rated pic in animals & the highest rated in candy, but neither pic made the cut...

...There were other pics from other artist that recieved the same treatment as mine just before the top 5 posting... I noticed 1 in faces, 1 in fruit, 2 in candy & 3 in animals... There may have been others...

...I may be wrong, but the timing was way too close to the posting to make me believe that I am...

...So there is more to it than just votes... The TD monitors can & do make there own decisions on what does & what does not make the top 5...

...Don't get me wrong... I am not complaining... I have a pic in 4 of the 6 categories for goodness sake... Just pointing out that the Think Draw powers that be are taking the time & effort to do what they think is right...

...I would think that is a lot of weight to bear...Thanks for every effort you are taking...

matthew

...I was disappointed to see kmkagle's "Long Journey Home" in animals & katw's "sunrise" in candy being voted down...

...But thrilled that Luna's "Mama Kitty for my daughter" made the top 5 in animals...

marg

Agree on 'Mama Kitty' ...

but what about 'Spring Thaw', which I thought was just superb, or 'What painting is this' ???

.. I mean it's a real honour to have a pic in the Top 5, but wouldn't you rather it was your best one ?

marg

I've actually done a bit of homework and there only seem to be 4 instances where a lower pic was in the Top 5 (but I haven't had a time to check those people that missed out altogether because of the one-vote idiot).

Your 'Dock of the bay', matthew, has slightly more ratings than the 'patio view' [25/23], Luna's 'Spring Thaw' & 'What painting is this ?' beat 'Mama Kitty' [53,28 /26], grahame's 'Think Draw is a scream' and '.' beat his 'E.P' [31,28 /21] and my 'monochrome fort' beat 'stream in winter' [23/14].

.. I just feel for anyone who didn't make the Top 5, but should've

Luna

I was delighted to make the top 5 with 4 pictures, but stunned at some that didn't make it, such as pollyester's Moon and Tides. There were pictures with less votes and lower ratings that did make it. I had some that I thought were better that the ones that were included, but had been voted down.
If TD would post the names of the raters with the rating, I think that would help a great deal. My wish for the day.

Qsilv

I've been trying to not keep on about it, but..... (small sigh)... yes, I really have to agree with Matthew, marg and Luna on all this.

Keeping track of the actual numbers over time is an eye-opener.

However, TD folks are good-hearted and I'm deeply appreciative of their (Rachel's alone? is it possible???) handling of this site. Gotta be like herding cats (smiles)

Login

There is also the other side of the coin, where some mediocre drawings get higher ratings than others that are truly superb. If TD uses their own discretion on what goes into top 5, isn't that just another vote, in a way.

anotherronism

Okay: I've looked around the net and I have it. It's a bit akward so I'll jump right in.

This is how IMDB rates their top-movies list based on user ratings (just like think draw).

They actually list their formula at the bottom of each report.

This is what it says:

The formula for calculating the Top Rated 250 Titles gives a true Bayesian estimate:

weighted rating (WR) = (v ÷ (v+m)) × R + (m ÷ (v+m)) × C

where:
R = average for the movie (mean) = (Rating)
v = number of votes for the movie = (votes)
m = minimum votes required to be listed in the Top 250 (currently 1300)
C = the mean vote across the whole report (currently 6.7)

These terms would have to be substituted to read:

The formula for calculating the Top Rated 5 Titles gives a true Bayesian estimate:

weighted rating (WR) = (v ÷ (v+m)) × R + (m ÷ (v+m)) × C

where:
R = average for the image (mean) = (Rating)
v = number of votes for the image = (votes)
m = minimum votes required to be listed in the Top 5 (currently 5 (or whatever))
C = the mean vote across the whole report (calculated at run-time)

Also: This should be applied by-theme.

You can research the whole Beysian thing on wikipedia or a million math sites.

IMDB uses it - I think Amazon as well. If they're doing it - why not us.

anotherronism

Puzzler: I LOVE your comment about "the amount of work".

I also agree with Matthew (and others) about not really being on here to make Top 5. But when I spend four hours on "The Kid" and get a single 4 vote and can no longer find my picture unless I click my own profile and I then see two-minute efforts with two votes above it it makes me really, really wonder why I'm even trying.

I really do this for the comments not the ratings. But making Top 5 brings a wider audience for constructive and destructive criticism. It's not JUST ego.

The effort required on this site to bring an image to the screen with these constrained tools is huge. If I'm only going to receive comments by my known associates (friends) on the site then I can go right back to pen and pencil and save money on future caprel tunnel syndrome treatments.

The rankings have to be fair or they have to be gone!

'Nuf said!

candr

anotherronism...

...and the left side of the brain and the right side of the brain connect!

If they ever implement a formula like this, I'd like to see "number of times a picture is viewed" considered in the formula (as mentioned on another thread).

marg

Ron..
sorry, I have NO idea what you're going on about..

(well, actually, I gave up trying to work it out, because I was feeling increasingly weary)

can you put it into a simple sentence or two for idiots like me ?

marg

.. oh.. and matthew.. what I saw seemed to indicate that Think Draw (Rachel), certainly DON'T take a hand in it !

I was actually surprised at the low incidence of lesser pictures being posted, but, as I say, there will be some pictures that never made it (and should have), because of the current rating system.

(and Qsilv, I'm with you.. feel like I keep ranting on about this.. my apologies !)

candr

I guess I should say I don't really understand it either. But my husband is a math guru and I know that he can solve many a problem at work with formulas where most of us would just use trial and error. He explains it to me (with a great deal of excitement in his eyes), and I nod my head and smile, knowing HE knows what he's talking about and trusting it's right -- but ME, well I have no clue, really.

So, in short, after hearing all the really complicated problems he solves with math, I'm SURE there must be some way to bring a fair solution to our little issue.